Make Me Mad

[prog]

Explain to me how the National ID card is so depressingly worse than the established use of SSIDs/drivers licenses/state IDs throughout current American society.

Seriously, I'm asking.

Comments

RFID?

[zyxwvut.livejournal.com]

I think it's got RFID in it, so They[*] can actually keep track of pretty much anyplace you go.

Z

P.S.: Being, of course, Them. You know.

Re: RFID?

[prog.livejournal.com]

Is this known? My understanding (after a little Googling) is that the proposal would give the feds the ability to dictate to states what their minimum ID standards should be, but no such standards have been publically released yet.

However, Virginia's apparently been talking about RFID-ing their IDs for a while. Interesting. I think it's likely this will become a topic of fierce national debate soon...

[hrafn.livejournal.com]

One of the big objections that sticks in my mind is that it creates one BIG database that all that info is in.

[prog.livejournal.com]

This argument doesn't move me so much. If all info is spread across many databases and bureaus, it's still accessible, just gummed up with red tape. Those who really need to can still get at it. Obscurity is not security.

Access is a far more pertinent issue, for me. zyxwvut's RFID concerns are an example. If these cards do contain RFID chips, then (according to some) I would be quite literally broadcasting my personal info wheverer I went, letting snoops get the goods on me without my active consent or awareness.

(OTOH, I could also have something in other pocket which would sniff out and store other people's IDs for my own nefarious purposes. And something else that hacks my outgoing signal? What an interesting picture this paints.)

[hrafn.livejournal.com]

Obscurity is not security.

True, but why make it easy?

I think, at this point, the cards do NOT contain RFID, but the people behind the idea would prefer it that way. But, since the people behind the RFID in the new passports have admitted that is perhaps not such a keen idea, perhaps the Real ID (which name makes me want to puke) people will similarly see the light.

I suppose above and beyond all that, I find the whole concept disgusting, because, while it's true you already have to show a state-issued ID for all manner of things for which it's ludicrous, now it's coming, blatantly, from the federal side. Maybe there's really no practical difference.

[mangosteen]

Now ChoicePoint has a single source for the purchase of your information.

[novalis.livejournal.com]

They're swipeable, which is likely to:

(a) alter peoples' attitudes about who has access to their personal information and
(b) make it harder to fight (say) mandatory swipes to use the T later, because it's a smaller change, and people tend to be more tolerant of small changes.

[prog.livejournal.com]

Are they swipeable? Where have you heard this?

I'm not doubting it, but there seems to be a lot of definite talk about the card's design when no such design has been announced, as far as I can tell.

[novalis.livejournal.com]

See section 202(b)(9). Technically, this could be filled by punchcards or RFID instead, but swipes seem likeliest.

[keimel.livejournal.com]

The text of this is

(9) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements.


Rather vague. It will contain a machine readable technology, whether swipe or RFID.

[pseudomanitou.livejournal.com]

The only real theory I've heard is how, within the language of the bill, federal agents can detain people indefinitely if they cannot prove their identity, and that with a massive federal system controlling the ability to prove identification - they could simply wipe political dissidents identities clean and put them into a political bag. But that just sounds too much like an overblown conspiracy theory.

There is also a concern that security companies that are currently mismanaging our information are going to find it much easier to sell thousands of personal information accounts to scam artists by accident if the system becomes more centralized.

In my mind - we already have several examples of how massive federal databases fail spectacularly, and leave many citizens struggling to simply go on living a normal life. Take the 'no-fly list' for instance - I know it's not the same thing, but if federal agents are dumb enough to arrest a five-year-old girl simply because she has a similar name to a terrorist half a world away, there is cause for some doubt. I also seem to remember something about a crime database that has the information feds could have used to stop 9/11, but it's so slow and dilapidated, you couldn't even run a search on it using more then one word at a time.

So, my answer is - I have no faith in the currently mismanaged and financially strapped federal government to do an acceptable job of creating this database without screwing a ton of regular citizens and putting them through a hell of paperwork and legal wrangling. They just haven't been doing that great of a job recently...

[jadelennox]

My main concern is enforcement. Will it become the defacto law to carry them? Already my nigh-refusal to show my driver's license makes it difficult for me to enter federal (public!) buildings, buy alcohol, enter assorted private buildings (harvard), fly... I mix it up with passport and student id.

Also, I have Jewish paranoia. It has never, in the history of the world, turned out well when people were asked to carry "papers".

Also, Homeland Security -- which is not subject to normal due process, remember -- will have immediate access to state info. And remember, that red tape is not mere bureaucracy. It's the legal system which protects us.

Incidentally it's also hugely anti-states' rights but that doesn't bother me except as hypocrisy.

Some links:
http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/
http://www.unrealid.com/
http://aila.org/contentViewer.aspx?bc=9,594,8140,9251
http://www.urban75.org/legal/id.html

[rserocki.livejournal.com]

Someone who works with international students said this will make his job harder. I can give some general statements he made about it being problematic, but I don't remember a level of detail beyond it being extra hassle for students coming from abroad.

[keimel.livejournal.com]

Why is a national ID bad?

- ID cards does not make us more secure, but less secure. Think of it this way. $AUTHORITY requests ID. You present yours, you are assumed to be a good guy. Obviously an $EVILDOER would not have proper documentation... that's the impression that people get. ID's like this only give false sense of security, so the thought that our security will be increased is bogus.

- You will not use a PO Box for a DL. It's not allowed. This is a Bad Thing for judges, undercover cops, undercover agents, politicians, political aides, lobbyists and citizens seeking redress of their government. There is benefit to anonymity for a multitude of reasons. Of course, this doesn't affect Joe Citizen, like you and I, but indirectly it affects our security.

- Database availability. So, you're okay with that, because nobody in authority would issue your private info to anyone else, but consider this from epic.org:

"In recent months three state DMVs have been penetrated by identity thieves. In March, burglars rammed a vehicle through a back wall at a DMV near Las Vegas and drove off with files, including Social Security numbers, on about 9,000 people. Last week Florida police arrested 52 people, including 3 DMV examiners, in a scheme that sold more than 2,000 fake driver’s licenses. Two weeks ago Maryland police arrested three people, including a DMW worker, in a plot to sell about 150 fake licenses"

If we can't trust them to keep the existing documents secure, can we trust them not to sell your info? They already have lost people's info before.

There is no provision for the security of these databases that's addressed in this bill.

- If it IS RFID, you will be able to be scanned at more than the supposed 8mm distance claimed. This has already been shown in regard to the passport changes. [1] You'll need to protect your license in one of those anti-stat bags to keep it from being read. Or nuke it on high for 7 seconds :) If you do nuke it, according to REAL ID, you'll be subject to jail time.

- Who's paying for it? There is no mention of funding in the bill. You will pay for it. Or your state will and raise your taxes.

- It was passed with absolutely no public debate. None. Not a single second. THAT should piss you off right there.

- All the recommendations of the 9/11 commission regarding identity documents was addressed in previous legislation, The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004. [2]

- Hate to use these words, but 'slippery slope'. It _will_ be a very easy next step to require everyone carry ID all the time. Whether it happens or not is speculation, but this makes it a great stepping stone to it.

I'm working on some more info relating to this and am considering going to Washington in June for a discussion of this. I hope that I can use you as a sounding board for 'why this sucks' so that I make sure I'm up on my facts. :)

Hope this was helpful.

[1] http://www.guardmycreditfile.org/index.php/content/view/391/76/
[2] http://www.eff.org/Activism/realid/analysis.pdf

other
- http://epic.org/privacy/id_cards/
- http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00418:
- http://www.eff.org/Activism/realid/analysis.pdf