prog | (no subject)

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You know, I'm actually rather uncomfortable with the current popular usage among the Daily Show-watching set of using "[has] balls" and "[is a] pussy" as slang for possessing admirable bravado and contemptible cowardliness or passivity, respectively.

Since the people employing the phrase are the furthest thing from ripsnorting redstaters, I suppose that there's a sense of ironic fun to be had by stepping briefly into George Liquor's shoes for a moment, passing an indictment as one who believes that men primarily validate themselves by going in there and changing the world, and women do it by quietly submitting to authority.

It's a little shocking to hear it coming from you, and so we all laugh. But when I hear you say it over and over again, I do start to wonder.

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the whole thing is complicated but i don't like it some of it. i'm more comfprtable with people of any sex being ascribed balls as courage than with people of any sex (though it's said far more often about men) being called pussy as wimp.

this is also why i never liked the word "wuss" as it is a combo of wimp and pussy.

I dunno about "wuss". I'd buy that etymology, but I'd also think that it's joined words like "sissy" and "dork" as being a mild insult that technically has a literal referent, but has through wide use become divorced from it and grown a meaning all its own.

yeah, to me that makes it all the worse...

in fact i am completely offended by sissy.

You're not the first. I still think of it in this category as it's one of those words I heard for years and years before learning what it "really" meant, as an adult, from someone who took great exception to it (calling the first speaker a homophobe, confusing him and launching a flamewar).

(Hm. I almost said "launched drama" but this was in on a messageboard in the late 1990s, before drama was invented. Or anyway drama was called "flamewars" back then. I think they are exactly the same. Speaking of language.)

Huh, I've never really thought about it that way. These were pretty common utterances I heard growing up, and I've been enjoying their revival and renaissance on the Daily Show. As a woman, I personally don't have any problem with them. The literal meanings and their sexist connotations are so far removed from reality for me that the words are completely inoffensive. Not just is it ironic in the it's-funny-because-it's-totally-not-true sense, but the literal meaning is just so faded. The words seem entirely washed of the sexist connotations and reborn as just kind of fun baby-swears.

But maybe that's just naive of me and I'm unwittingly supporting the misogynist patriarchy. Though I don't think I personally use them much, I'll try to refrain from doing so in your presence any more. :)

I don't use them much, and while I don't find them highly offensive I consider them a far cry from "completely inoffensive."

To me the literal meanings are very much present. Both words do get a lot of use to mean actual, physical genitalia, even though the figurative use is also very common. When "has balls" is used figuratively about women, to me there's still a strong connotation of "gutsy in a manly (and therefore admirable) sort of way."

I think my thoughts about this are less strong than

prog's, but I do feel pretty much in agreement with him.

It's good to know this stuff still offends people. I should really be more careful. :)

That's interesting. Much of my discomfort stems from my own assumption that these perceptions of gender-intrinsic qualities that boil down to strength versus weakness are actually very much alive in our culture. So much dimmer than they were decades ago, perhaps, but still there. I think their dimming is good, and so even a playful mock-resurgence of them makes me wary.

But I'd hate it if people felt the need to watch what they say around me! None of this does me pain or offense. I'm just thinkin out loud is all.

Ha ha also Zarf just this very second offered me some of those Cheddar Beer potato chips you hate. Or is it the other kind? I forget.

I think this might be a generational thing. I think my generation might have been raised to take for granted the equality of women in a lot of ways. Or maybe it was just such a non-issue to me personally while growing up. I was raised mainly by strong women, so I just took for granted that women are strong. Certainly as strong as men and possibly I'm sexist in the opposite way and think they're even stronger than men.

And Cheddar Beer potato chips are AWESOME. It's the Thai flavored Kettle Chips I don't like. D'oh. Now I will have to stop at the grocery store on the way home and get some cheddar beer ones. Darn you, Zarf and Jason!

I've heard "has ovaries" and similar applied to courageous women. I think I've even heard "has gonads"!

I try to use gonads to suggest courage. I suppose I could train myself to say spineless for the other thing. But then the invertebrates get all pissed off.

You really do have to watch out for the invertebrate lobby. They've been ignored for years, but they are starting to gain more influence.

the images of worms, planaria and other such creatures picketing with signs, calling into radio shows and taking ads out in USA today about their mistreatment is something that will amuse me all weekend.

thank you, cthulhia.

I hadn't really considered it that way--definitely food for thought.

I almost always refer to someone "having guts" if they have lots of courage: gender neutral, although now I think about it, I have no idea about the etymology. I suppose "spineless" is pretty good for the weak-willed too.

i totally thought this was the hot dog from "burger time" at first glance. clearly i did something right at my inaugural summer friday boozy lunch^TM

That's pretty awesome, Ms. A.

i think someone commented on this before, but i think the language is designed to get a laugh, like here's a "news" program that is faux serious and they are commenting on some serious issues but look he said "pussy!" but the point you make is valid, really. it's leftover language originally designed to differentiate men from the boys by equating one with the "weaker" sex.

i confess to saying pussy from time to time to indicate my disdain for actions or behavior i deem weak, although on the flip side i now prefer "grow a pair." i also say retarded for things that strike me as stupid. these are definitely potentially offensive to many people. i have somehow made peace with that.

Oh boy I say offensive-to-different-people things all the time. I condone this behavior. MORE PLEASE

It's just the contrast and repetition of these two terms have irritated me lately. (Though maybe i perceive that I am hearing them more often than I actually am... there is a name for this psycholinguistic phenomenon but I am too lazy to look for it now.)

Yeah, it is obnoxious, though I don't so much mind the "takes balls" - or gonads, or ovaries, both of which do seem to be getting more popular - as much as I do the "pussy" insult, which I do find offensive (likewise "wuss"). Honestly, there are other insults out there that convey "coward." Insults/compliments based on genitalia also strike me as just incredibly juvenile, and I don't have a lot of patience for that, period.

I'd noticed this... it does make me a bit uneasy whenever these sorts usages show up.

It's 'cause of stuff like this that some in the feminist blogosphere doesn't feel entirely welcome in the Democratic blogosphere (Daily Kos, et al.) Death of a thousand cuts and all, ya know.

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