Zodiac

May. 12th, 2008 05:13 pm
prog: (Default)
[personal profile] prog
[livejournal.com profile] jwz writes a list of advice to the novice city-cyclist (optimized for SF but applicable in any urban setting, I think). Of particular note:
Safety: I follow the Zodiac approach: always assume the cars can see you perfectly, and are trying to kill you. If an intersection seems iffy, use the sidewalk and crosswalks. If big streets like Market and Van Ness freak you out, there are always less traficky ways to go, or just stay on the sidewalks.

Date: 2008-05-12 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cortezopossum.livejournal.com
I've had cars yell at me to ride on the sidewalks and pedestrians yell at me to ride on the streets -- both deserve a smack in the jaw. Honestly where I'm at there's occasionally need to use both.

On SecondLife I saw a region named 'AppleSeed' and was wondering if it was your own. I couldn't teleport there so I wasn't able to poke around with trying to find out who owned it or if there were any of your AppleSeed logos floating about.

Date: 2008-05-13 01:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prog.livejournal.com
It ain't me.

Maybe I should go check it out. I have a half-written Appleseed blog post about other interesting entities, projects and organizations called "Appleseed".

Date: 2008-05-12 11:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] toonhead-npl.livejournal.com
I thought riding on the sidewalk was against the law?

Date: 2008-05-12 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keimel.livejournal.com
See the OP for comments related to that. It's getting entertaining.

Date: 2008-05-13 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] radtea.livejournal.com
These seem pretty sensible. When I was a kid we were taught to ride like we were invisible. Now as an adult riding in The City That Bicycle Lanes Forgot it seems like treating cars are hostile predators is more reasonable.

Date: 2008-05-13 12:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrafn.livejournal.com
Hostile predators who you nonetheless *want* to see you. Yeah, I pretty much assume that even if the cars aren't trying to kill me, they aren't trying *not* to kill me, either.

Date: 2008-05-13 01:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karlvonl.livejournal.com
From what I've noticed, it seems that most cyclists ignore traffic lights, i.e. they go right through red lights as though the lights don't apply to them. (Lest you think I'm biased, I even noticed this back when I was a bicycle commuter; I actually felt self-concious stopping at red lights and watching other cyclists go right by me.)

Then there was the guy I saw last year who was riding his bike against traffic, in between two oncoming lanes rather than against the curb, and steering with one hand because he was on his cell phone. Of course he wasn't wearing a helmet or anything.

s/most/some/

Date: 2008-05-13 01:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prog.livejournal.com
I suggest that you're seeing a frequency illusion, but yes, plenty of cyclists do ignore traffic signals, and that's just worse for them since it increases the chances they'll get flattened.

I idly theorize that this is due to the fact that the U.S. doesn't have a bike culture the way it has a car culture, and so road rules for bicyclists aren't as ingrained in everyone from childhood the way they are for motorists. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of drivers think that bicyclists don't need to obey lights, either!

To tell you the truth, the last time I road my bike frequently (high school) I can't recall whether or not I obeyed traffic signals. But this was also in a relatively sparse area in Florida that wasn't very intersectiony, so maybe it was a moot point. (I do recall that I rocked the turn signals like nobody's business.)

Date: 2008-05-13 01:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prog.livejournal.com
Also I totally saw a bikey guy stopped at a red light and gabbing on his cell the other day, and boy were my feelings mixed.

Date: 2008-05-13 05:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lyricon.livejournal.com
Another good thing to do is to familiarize yourself with bike laws in your state/region. In Hawaii, riding on sidewalks in business areas is illegal. This is not great, since business districts also tend to have heavy traffic. Sometimes it does seem like a catch-22... it reminds my of my old drivers handbook that actually had a line reading something like this: "Maintaining speed with the flow of traffic is one of the safest things you can do. Going faster or slower than the surrounding traffic is one of the leading causes of accidents and traffic-related injuries in the country. Always go at the speed of the cars around you, unless they are going over the speed limit. That is illegal."

Hmm... safety, or laws...?

Date: 2008-05-13 01:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dictator555.livejournal.com
Erm, I'm not sure this is the best advice to be distributing, jmac. (Of course, I think I might be well on my way to being the person described in item 1.)

Before I started bike commuting, I read a large amount of advice, both on the Internet and in books. (I also read my bike manual, if you can believe it.) Not that I'm an expert, by any means, but this advice conflicts with what the majority of experts advise in several ways, and also conflicts with what little I have learned through experience. I mean, some of the points are good, but some are seriously dumb and/or dangerous.

For someone who needs good advice and hands-on support before venturing into city commutting (at least in Boston) MassBike has an awesome website and a free two hour class (and then more paid classes).

Just saying. :)

Date: 2008-05-15 02:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] radtea.livejournal.com
Apart from the riding-on-sidewalks thing, none of the advice seems really bad to me, although panniers mounted over the rear wheel are generally considered better than a backpack in terms of carrying loads.

The comments are fascinating, though. Two that caught my eye particularly: "These people are scary. Maybe I won't get a bike" and, "I applaud the fact that you are able to ride bikes without seeming to have much love for bikes or bike culture."

Date: 2008-05-15 02:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dictator555.livejournal.com
As you said, there was the riding on the sidewalks thing, which is really terrible advice. Plus the no lights advice. It's dangerous, and the reason given not to buy them (stuff getting stolen) is easily avoided, since most lights are easy to slip on and off when you go inside. Likewise bags, baskets, and panniers. Maybe he just doesn't know what's available?

I don't know much about the Zodiac thing, but it also seems a little bit silly. Most cars are not driven by homicidal maniacs. Defensive riding is essential, but why fill yourself with unnecessy angst towards people who are just trying to get somewhere? And you should never assume cars can see you. Making yourself visible is the most important thing you can do. It just doesn't make sense to me. If that's what jwz thinks, fine. But he shouldn't present as "What You Should Obviously Do To Stay Alive, Noob" when it's just a marginal theory.

Obviously prog thought it sounded like good advice, and he's a smart guy, so there are probably other people out there who also saw it and didn't think they needed to do further research. And that's crappy, because it's the kind of advice that could get someone killed.

The comments were pretty interesting. The second one you quote seems particularly apt to me! I can understand getting a little bent out of shape about the post, no matter which side of the issues you stand on. City biking is dangerous, so it makes sense that people would feel passionate about staying safe, however they personally define it.

Date: 2008-05-15 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prog.livejournal.com
His Zodiac comment resonated with me because, when walking (which I do an awful lot), I think of cars not as vehicles with human pilots but as hulking metal automatons which usually follow predictable patterns, but ultimately don't care if I live or die. I treat them with both the caution and the indifference so deserved. If I were moving at three times walking speed, I can totally see myself being thrice as cautious.

I also tend to shy away from nerdism of all stripes, and as a possible future bicyclist, I appreciated the warning glimpse into bike-nerd culture. (I realize this makes me a self-hating nerd. I don't care.)

Date: 2008-05-15 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dictator555.livejournal.com
Did I know you were thinking about becoming a bicyclist? Cool!

Funnily, I think of cars in a more "us vs them" way as a ped than as a biker. When I'm on bike, I find it more helpful to think of myself as a vehicle. Which doesn't mean I'm not advocating CONSTANT VIGILANCE! I'm super cautious as a biker, and I'm with you on the crazies who run red lights. Yesterday no less than five bikes passed me while I was stopped at a red light.

I don't know what to say about bike-nerd culture. It seems like the haters (people like jwz who make fun of people with certain types of equipment) maybe feel like the so-called bike nerds are looking down on them? But I've gotten nothing but respect at the bike shops and from my fellow cyclists.

And dude, I'm slow on my bike. I get passed by 10 people for every one person I pass. Almost everyone is very safe and respectful about passing and what not. I think if my ego was a little more fragile, I might feel a little bent about being passed so much. But as it is, I'm just proud of myself for getting out there! I think this is a good way to think about the whole bike-nerd culture, whatever that is. Just be respectful and people will be respectful back and be proud of yourself for getting out there.

Just my thoughts, and admittedly they're coming from someone who owns bicycle shorts. :P

Date: 2008-05-16 02:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] radtea.livejournal.com
Just be respectful and people will be respectful back and be proud of yourself for getting out there.

If only it were so. I grew up in a time and place where biking was a utilitarian thing. We biked because there wasn't any other way to get around, and the geography dictated a pretty spread out community. So for me biking has always meant utilitarian transportation, and nothing more. I've used a bike for utilitarian transport off and on throughout my entire adult life, some years more, some years less, but it's always been part of my transportation mix.

Unfortunately I have never felt that anyone who thinks of themselves as part of "bike culture" has ever shown me any respect, and have been sneered out of bike shops by any number of arrogant assholes who think that anyone not wearing bike shorts shouldn't ride.

The very best attitude I have ever been shown by anyone in a bike shop in the past thirty years is pity. Last year I had a flat and needed a new pump and there was a bike shop around the corner, and the nearest non-speciality store was far enough away that I'd really need to ride to get to it, so on a chance I braved the lion's den, and did indeed come away with a very nice compact pump that was only slightly over-priced. But as soon as it was clear to the clerk that what I wanted was a functional machine for putting air in tyres at 66 psi rather than a high-pressure fashion statement he was, "Well, we don't have anything that's really in your price range, but I might be able to find you something in the back of the shop..." To his credit, he did find something discontinued and discounted, and for once I went away moderately satisfied and only mildly annoyed. But his attitude still smelled of, "Your kind don't really belong in here."

Not that I'm bitter or anything :-D The accumulation of these experiences may well drive the "haters", and while I'm not proud of the way I feel on this issue, I can certainly understand why others might feel this way too. "Bike culture" in my experience has been elitist, arrogant and contemptuous of outsiders. What's not to hate? If your experience has been different, then good!

From my point of view the good news is that there are more and more utilitarian bikers out there, who don't care two pins for "bike culture". I get a real laugh out of more utilitarian road bikes being called "hybrids", though, as if only the highly specialized racers and mountain bikes were "real", and an ordinary bike for ordinary people has to be described as a mixture of the two. It's as if for 35 years--everyone stopped biking for transport in 1972, as near as I can tell--all we had were people who drove Hummers and people who drove Ferraris, and someone finally noticed there was a niche for people who want something smaller than one and slower than the other, and neither the Hummerites nor the Ferrari-ites can quite grasp it.

Ride safely!

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